215C Overdrive Channels !

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Old Rocker
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215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Old Rocker » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:11 pm

This is a follow up to my other thread,i bought an almost new 215C a couple of weeks ago & have now gigged it twice(latest last night),so a i'm JVM novice with only about 4 hrs use time.
I can't get a useable sound out of any of the 3 modes on the Overdrive Ch.,i'm living on the Crunch Red mode & switching between the MV's,but what i want to do is use Crunch Red & a higher gain Lead sound out of the Overdrive Ch.,but in comparison to Cr. Red it just sounds thin & weedy(like a wasp) & also seems to be lower Volume.
I've heard a few on line Dems where the OD ch. just takes off from where the Cr. Ch. leaves off & it rips,so what am i doing wrong?.

I'll admit i've tried a few Ch. switching amps(in decades gone by) & have never got to grips with them,but nowadays with so many Y/T dems,you can hear the potential & i really want to sort out the 215,the Cr. Red is great,"so what am i doing wrong". [smilie-question] [smilie-question].
I have been reading the Tones Settings section & I tried a couple of the settings last night,but failed

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Greg_L
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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Greg_L » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:54 pm

Old Rocker wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:11 pm
This is a follow up to my other thread,i bought an almost new 215C a couple of weeks ago & have now gigged it twice(latest last night),so a i'm JVM novice with only about 4 hrs use time.
I can't get a useable sound out of any of the 3 modes on the Overdrive Ch.,i'm living on the Crunch Red mode & switching between the MV's,but what i want to do is use Crunch Red & a higher gain Lead sound out of the Overdrive Ch.,but in comparison to Cr. Red it just sounds thin & weedy(like a wasp) & also seems to be lower Volume.
I've heard a few on line Dems where the OD ch. just takes off from where the Cr. Ch. leaves off & it rips,so what am i doing wrong?.

I'll admit i've tried a few Ch. switching amps(in decades gone by) & have never got to grips with them,but nowadays with so many Y/T dems,you can hear the potential & i really want to sort out the 215,the Cr. Red is great,"so what am i doing wrong". [smilie-question] [smilie-question].
I have been reading the Tones Settings section & I tried a couple of the settings last night,but failed
You can balance the volumes with the channel volumes. The OD channel is so compressed it lacks the dynamics of the clean/crunch channel, and it is slightly lower in volume. So if you run the crunch channel volume on say 5, run the OD channel volume on 6. Balance them out until switching yields the same level at the master volume.

As for the tone....that's just kind of how it is. You're going from the big fat crunch channel to the searing gain OD channel. Just my opinion - OD Orange and Red can be damn near unusable sometimes. What guitar are you using?
My gear list? Do a search.

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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by erpece » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:43 am

Old Rocker wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:11 pm
This is a follow up to my other thread,i bought an almost new 215C a couple of weeks ago & have now gigged it twice(latest last night),so a i'm JVM novice with only about 4 hrs use time.
I can't get a useable sound out of any of the 3 modes on the Overdrive Ch.,i'm living on the Crunch Red mode & switching between the MV's,but what i want to do is use Crunch Red & a higher gain Lead sound out of the Overdrive Ch.,but in comparison to Cr. Red it just sounds thin & weedy(like a wasp) & also seems to be lower Volume.
I've heard a few on line Dems where the OD ch. just takes off from where the Cr. Ch. leaves off & it rips,so what am i doing wrong?.

I'll admit i've tried a few Ch. switching amps(in decades gone by) & have never got to grips with them,but nowadays with so many Y/T dems,you can hear the potential & i really want to sort out the 215,the Cr. Red is great,"so what am i doing wrong". [smilie-question] [smilie-question].
I have been reading the Tones Settings section & I tried a couple of the settings last night,but failed
Regarding the tone on the OD channels - someone posted very useful information a few years back on this forum:

Bear in mind that B-M-T (EQ) affect each other. Increasing Mid en Treble will also result in less Bass, this can be challenging sometimes... A thin tone is often caused by dialing in too much Treble and/or Presence.

- A good starting point is to have the channel vols somewhere around 12 o'clock
- Dial all OD tone controls to zero.
- Slowly raise Bass and Mid to your liking. Do this in small increments.
- Now slowly increase Treble. Don't hesitate to leave any EQ knob (especially Treble) below 9 o'clock if that is what you like. Don't shy away from awkward LOOKING settings.
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Old Rocker » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:02 pm

erpece wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:43 am

Regarding the tone on the OD channels - someone posted very useful information a few years back on this forum:

Bear in mind that B-M-T (EQ) affect each other. Increasing Mid en Treble will also result in less Bass, this can be challenging sometimes... A thin tone is often caused by dialing in too much Treble and/or Presence.

- A good starting point is to have the channel vols somewhere around 12 o'clock
- Dial all OD tone controls to zero.
- Slowly raise Bass and Mid to your liking. Do this in small increments.
- Now slowly increase Treble. Don't hesitate to leave any EQ knob (especially Treble) below 9 o'clock if that is what you like. Don't shy away from awkward LOOKING settings.

Thanks,erpece,i did read those settings in the Tone section,it didn't really work for me,i'll just have to get more time at our practice shed,where I can play at gigging volumes.


Greg_L wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:54 pm

You can balance the volumes with the channel volumes. The OD channel is so compressed it lacks the dynamics of the clean/crunch channel, and it is slightly lower in volume. So if you run the crunch channel volume on say 5, run the OD channel volume on 6. Balance them out until switching yields the same level at the master volume.

As for the tone....that's just kind of how it is. You're going from the big fat crunch channel to the searing gain OD channel. Just my opinion - OD Orange and Red can be damn near unusable sometimes. What guitar are you using?

Thanks,Greg L. My Guitar won't mean much to yo(i suspect)it's a "Gordy" & sort of a 1 off Les Paul shape Custom,forced by the size of the Top Veneer,but the pick ups are SD PG's.

This sort of imbalance(for me)in the 2 channels,doesn't really come across in the Demo videos i've watched,oh well,i'll just have to stick at it.

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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Greg_L » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:38 pm

Old Rocker wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:02 pm



Thanks,Greg L. My Guitar won't mean much to yo(i suspect)it's a "Gordy" & sort of a 1 off Les Paul shape Custom,forced by the size of the Top Veneer,but the pick ups are SD PG's.

This sort of imbalance(for me)in the 2 channels,doesn't really come across in the Demo videos i've watched,oh well,i'll just have to stick at it.
The guitar doesn't mean much, but the pickups do. You're using adequate pickups.

That crazy gain imbalance is present on the 4-channel JVM as well. So you're trying to go from Crunch Red to what? OD...what mode?
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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Old Rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:06 am

Greg_L wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:38 pm
Old Rocker wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:02 pm



Thanks,Greg L. My Guitar won't mean much to yo(i suspect)it's a "Gordy" & sort of a 1 off Les Paul shape Custom,forced by the size of the Top Veneer,but the pick ups are SD PG's.

This sort of imbalance(for me)in the 2 channels,doesn't really come across in the Demo videos i've watched,oh well,i'll just have to stick at it.
The guitar doesn't mean much, but the pickups do. You're using adequate pickups.

That crazy gain imbalance is present on the 4-channel JVM as well. So you're trying to go from Crunch Red to what? OD...what mode?
I'm trying to get a step up from Cr. Red to give me a bit more overdrive/volume mostly for leads,but sometimes a more overdiven chord sound,i do use the Volume of guitar for clean up.

Just for info,my Gordy is the best guitar i've ever owned & i've had some really good Guitars,dating back to 1959 [smilie=icon_cool.gif] ,i've owned it since 1988 & love it,all i want is for my JVM to be at the same level. [smilie=icon_mrgreen.gif]

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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Spacerocker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:09 am

Old Rocker:

I don't really understand what you mean by the OD channel being quieter than the clean/crunch? Presumably you mean for the same channel volume settings? But you could put your crunch volume on 2 (for example - I'm not saying this is the best idea) and your OD channel on 8, and there would be a considerable jump in volume when you go to the OD channel!

And as for the OD channels being "thin" - well, yes they are to a point - they are not intended to have too much bass, in order to stay tight and not become "muddy" for metal type riffs....Also they are very compressed at all but the lowest gain settings. Some people seem to like this, and OD1 is their favourite setting. I suspect a lot of these people will be playing at home, not gigging in a band? When I got my JVM I tried to use OD1 Orange with a fair amount of gain as my main rhythm channel - but what I found was this 1) The Drummer absolutely hated it (but he was a Dick, to be fair....) and 2) My sound was either WAY too loud, and drowned out the band, or too quiet and loss in the mix! I now believe that this was due to the lack of dynamics on the highly compressed OD1 sound....

As an "Old Rocker" myself - see what you think of this clip? I am using Crunch Red for Rhythm and OD1 Orange for lead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o8yfJJOJrE
Amps: Marshall JVM410: Hotter Bias, Plexi mod, 10H choke, Stiffness Mod, Neg Feedback Mod (Variable) spec, 3rd Stage Bias mod, AFD type mod (increased Crunch gain), 50W conversion, Tone stack Mods to 2203 spec, "Anti-Compression" mod, dBx 31 band graphic in loop, Marshall AVT20 Valvestate practice amp, Marshall 1980 2203, 2 x 1936 Cabs, 1968 Orignal 4 x 12 Cab with Greenbacks
Guitars: Les Paul Traditional, Fender HM Strat x 2 with Dimarzio Evolution Humbucker, Fender Standard Strat
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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Greg_L » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:02 pm

Old Rocker wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:06 am


I'm trying to get a step up from Cr. Red to give me a bit more overdrive/volume mostly for leads,but sometimes a more overdiven chord sound,i do use the Volume of guitar for clean up.

Just for info,my Gordy is the best guitar i've ever owned & i've had some really good Guitars,dating back to 1959 [smilie=icon_cool.gif] ,i've owned it since 1988 & love it,all i want is for my JVM to be at the same level. [smilie=icon_mrgreen.gif]
Crunch Red and OD Green are kind of roughly the same as far as gain goes, but OD Green is more compressed. That could be good for leads, maybe not so much for rhythm. I like OD Green for rhythm, but I play blazing punk rock most of the time. I find Crunch Red too fat for my liking most of the time. But it is a good channel IMO.

I think you'd probably do well to stick with Crunch Red for your rhythm, and dial in an OD Orange tone for your leads. Those can be your standard two modes for most stuff. Since they're separate channels you can tailor the channel volumes so you get a nice volume balance between the two when switching from one to the other. OD Orange's channel volume will have to be a little higher, but that's what the knobs are for. OD Orange has a stupid amount of gain though, so in my experience you can keep the gain pretty low (2-3) and it will sound open and clear but still have that searing high gain sound. It will be bright, so roll back the highs and wind up the mids on that channel. Also watch the resonance control. I personally think it's damn near useless unless you're playing quietly. With any kind of stage volume, the resonance just adds muck and hides the mids rendering your tone almost invisible.

So....basically....just keep tweaking. If you disappear or get too thin with the OD channel, then you need to make some adjustments. Use the channel volume and EQ controls to find the balance.
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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Old Rocker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:12 pm

Spacerocker wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:09 am
Old Rocker:

I don't really understand what you mean by the OD channel being quieter than the clean/crunch? Presumably you mean for the same channel volume settings? But you could put your crunch volume on 2 (for example - I'm not saying this is the best idea) and your OD channel on 8, and there would be a considerable jump in volume when you go to the OD channel!

And as for the OD channels being "thin" - well, yes they are to a point - they are not intended to have too much bass, in order to stay tight and not become "muddy" for metal type riffs....Also they are very compressed at all but the lowest gain settings. Some people seem to like this, and OD1 is their favourite setting. I suspect a lot of these people will be playing at home, not gigging in a band? When I got my JVM I tried to use OD1 Orange with a fair amount of gain as my main rhythm channel - but what I found was this 1) The Drummer absolutely hated it (but he was a Dick, to be fair....) and 2) My sound was either WAY too loud, and drowned out the band, or too quiet and loss in the mix! I now believe that this was due to the lack of dynamics on the highly compressed OD1 sound....

As an "Old Rocker" myself - see what you think of this clip? I am using Crunch Red for Rhythm and OD1 Orange for lead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o8yfJJOJrE

Shit,i just wrote a book in reply & it disappeared,i'll try again later after I have a lie down. smilie=icon_lol.gif

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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Andy » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:35 pm

Did you read

"Your new JVM will improve tone-wise with time and wisdom"

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=965#p9391
I started that topic when I had not long had the amp and was very underwhelmed ...
but it all worked out in the end as you'll see from the posts in that thread.
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Re: 215C Overdrive Channels !

Post by Spacerocker » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:03 pm

Old Rocker wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:12 pm

Shit,i just wrote a book in reply & it disappeared,i'll try again later after I have a lie down. smilie=icon_lol.gif
Damn! - looking forward to chapter one!
Amps: Marshall JVM410: Hotter Bias, Plexi mod, 10H choke, Stiffness Mod, Neg Feedback Mod (Variable) spec, 3rd Stage Bias mod, AFD type mod (increased Crunch gain), 50W conversion, Tone stack Mods to 2203 spec, "Anti-Compression" mod, dBx 31 band graphic in loop, Marshall AVT20 Valvestate practice amp, Marshall 1980 2203, 2 x 1936 Cabs, 1968 Orignal 4 x 12 Cab with Greenbacks
Guitars: Les Paul Traditional, Fender HM Strat x 2 with Dimarzio Evolution Humbucker, Fender Standard Strat
Effects: Morley Wah/Volume Pedal. Behringer Vintage Phaser, TC G-Major, Alesis Midiverb. Behringer FCB1010 Midi Foot Controller

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