Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

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erpece
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:22 pm

Most presets on devices like the AxeFX simulate a guitar amp running through a cab and being recorded with a mic. If you would run such a preset through an amp with a guitar cab again, that will change the sound too much. Especially the mids will suffer and that means you will not cut through a live band mix.

Did you try a FRFR powered speaker?
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

kmanick
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by kmanick » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:21 pm

I don't use any cab sims I dialed in these specific patches I use with the band straight through the Powestage into the cab. I don't like FRFR, I just don't gel with it.
I'm going to use my Mesa cab again tomorrow night with my JVM head and see if we can hear a difference.
JVM210H-NegFB mod, Od2-Od1 Mod-Plexi Mod, Od gain reduction Mod
JCM800 2X12
Recto 2X12
Axe FX II
Seismic SAX-15 FRFR powered wedge

erpece
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:11 pm

kmanick wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:21 pm
I don't use any cab sims I dialed in these specific patches I use with the band straight through the Powestage into the cab. I don't like FRFR, I just don't gel with it.
I'm going to use my Mesa cab again tomorrow night with my JVM head and see if we can hear a difference.
That should sound pretty good with the AxeFX going into the JVM poweramp.
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

kmanick
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by kmanick » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:29 pm

well I've used my JVM at 2 rehearsals now, one with the mesa cab and one with my early JCM800 2X12.
I have the negative feedback mod on mine (with a pot ) and against the Axe FX it was no contest.
The JVM takes up so much more sonic room it's not even funny. I set my NFB pot at about noon (8:00 is stock) and opened up
the master to about 12:00 with the channel volume at around 10:00. The amp sounded so wide open and full , the rest of the band
were all instantly against me bringing "that digital crap" back to rehearsal LOL.
I am for the most part using (it's a 210H) od1 green with an Sd-1 in front of it. Green seems to sound thicker than
Orange and for the classic rock stuff we are doing fits the bill nicely. We just decided to add "Satch Boogie" to the set list so I
am going to have to figure some good settings for that one.
I love my Axe FX but the difference was so recognizable , that I can't argue with them.
sucks for me though, as now I have to lug that heavy head and my stomp boxes around :(
JVM210H-NegFB mod, Od2-Od1 Mod-Plexi Mod, Od gain reduction Mod
JCM800 2X12
Recto 2X12
Axe FX II
Seismic SAX-15 FRFR powered wedge

erpece
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:58 am

Yeah... nothing like the real thing.

I have a Line6 Helix I use with my HJS (4 cables) and some presets bypass the HJS preamp and use a Helix preamp model instead. Sounds killer.

Did you try running the Axe FX into the JVM poweramp?
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

kmanick
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by kmanick » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:00 pm

I have and it sounds great , but I hate the thought of lugging everything around, one positive would be I get to use both cabs. I may try that tomorrow at rehearsal.
JVM210H-NegFB mod, Od2-Od1 Mod-Plexi Mod, Od gain reduction Mod
JCM800 2X12
Recto 2X12
Axe FX II
Seismic SAX-15 FRFR powered wedge

erpece
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:35 am

kmanick wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:00 pm
I have and it sounds great , but I hate the thought of lugging everything around, one positive would be I get to use both cabs. I may try that tomorrow at rehearsal.
Do you have the chance to try and run the Axe FX through the poweramp in of a guitar combo instead of a FRFR? The coloration of the guitar speaker might just do the trick and if it's a solid state combo it won't be too heavy on the back.
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

kmanick
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by kmanick » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:55 pm

I don't use any FRFR it's always out to a real cab , either my Mesa 2X12 recto or my JCM 800 2X12
JVM210H-NegFB mod, Od2-Od1 Mod-Plexi Mod, Od gain reduction Mod
JCM800 2X12
Recto 2X12
Axe FX II
Seismic SAX-15 FRFR powered wedge

kmanick
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by kmanick » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:52 pm

have had several rehearsals now and I've tried both of my cabs.
Back to using my JVM with the Axe FX in 4CM mode so I can take advantage of all of my effects.
Maybe using FOH at some gigs will make me revert back but in rehearsals the band overwhelmingly
likes the JVM over the Axe FX modeling.
JVM210H-NegFB mod, Od2-Od1 Mod-Plexi Mod, Od gain reduction Mod
JCM800 2X12
Recto 2X12
Axe FX II
Seismic SAX-15 FRFR powered wedge

CaptNasty
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:53 pm

kmanick wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:52 pm
have had several rehearsals now and I've tried both of my cabs.
Back to using my JVM with the Axe FX in 4CM mode so I can take advantage of all of my effects.
Maybe using FOH at some gigs will make me revert back but in rehearsals the band overwhelmingly
likes the JVM over the Axe FX modeling.
Were you using the amp modelling with a real cab or a cab simulation prior to going 4cm?
USA Jackson Dinky DK1 Custom Shop (2018)
Ibanez JEM 7V WH - Japan (2005)
Suhr Modern Custom (2010)
Ibanez J Custom RG1502S - Japan (1998)
Gibson Les Paul Axcess Alex Lifeson Signature (2012)
Fender American Standard 60th Anniversary Commemorative Stratocaster (2014)
Charvel Satchel Signature Pro Mod DK - Re-finished, OFR, Schaller tuners (2018)
USA Jackson SL2H (2015)
Jackson RR5 (2009)
Ovation Collectors Series (2007)
Marshall JVM 410 HJS - Stock (4CM)
Fractal Audio Axe FX III (4CM & FRFR)
Marshall 1960 TV (4CM)
XiTone Michael Britt Active 1x12 (FRFR)
Fractal Audio Systems FC-6
EBTech Hum Eliminator HE-8
Furman P-1800 AR
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kmanick
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by kmanick » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:24 am

amp modeling, no cab sims

AxeFx -> Seymour duncan Powerstage-> either a Jcm800 2X12 cab or a Mesa 2 2X12s
JVM210H-NegFB mod, Od2-Od1 Mod-Plexi Mod, Od gain reduction Mod
JCM800 2X12
Recto 2X12
Axe FX II
Seismic SAX-15 FRFR powered wedge

CaptNasty
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:14 pm

kmanick wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:24 am
amp modeling, no cab sims

AxeFx -> Seymour duncan Powerstage-> either a Jcm800 2X12 cab or a Mesa 2 2X12s
So you may not be an FRFR guy. An IR is not a capture of the entire audio field produced by a guitar cabinet, it is a capture of a small audio sample... a small location within that audio field. A recording of a guitar amp is the same as an IR as it is a capture of a small sampling of a larger audio field. Guitar cabs do not create a consistent audio field. That is why guitar cabs sound different when you stand in different locations relative to the cab.

The sonic “presence” that you have talked about is related to this. The lack of presence you feel in IRs is the missing “data” from the original audio field. If your band ever records, you will end up with the same sonic artifacts as an IR as the mic will only capture a small sample of your guitars audio field.
USA Jackson Dinky DK1 Custom Shop (2018)
Ibanez JEM 7V WH - Japan (2005)
Suhr Modern Custom (2010)
Ibanez J Custom RG1502S - Japan (1998)
Gibson Les Paul Axcess Alex Lifeson Signature (2012)
Fender American Standard 60th Anniversary Commemorative Stratocaster (2014)
Charvel Satchel Signature Pro Mod DK - Re-finished, OFR, Schaller tuners (2018)
USA Jackson SL2H (2015)
Jackson RR5 (2009)
Ovation Collectors Series (2007)
Marshall JVM 410 HJS - Stock (4CM)
Fractal Audio Axe FX III (4CM & FRFR)
Marshall 1960 TV (4CM)
XiTone Michael Britt Active 1x12 (FRFR)
Fractal Audio Systems FC-6
EBTech Hum Eliminator HE-8
Furman P-1800 AR
Furman P-1800 PF R

CaptNasty
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:34 pm

In thinking ahout it, this is what I find interesting.

We listening to recording artists and we go out and buy guitars, amps, and gear in an attempt to sound like the tones we have heard and like. We setup, play, and wonder why our rig doesn’t sound like the tones we are trying to replicate” “WTF! I got Joe Satriani’s amp, his guitar, his entire signal chain but it is not even close!”

This happens in part because a recording is just like an IR: it is a near field mic capture of a small segment of a complete audio field. So we cannot get album tones from a guitar rig precisely because of the “amp in the room” effect versus the near field mic’d tone we hear on albums.

So along comes a product that lets us precisely replicate the signal chains and album tones that we have chased for years. It uses near field IR captures and can precisely replicate recorded tones. So what do we do? We complain that it does not sound like “the amp in the room”, that it does not feel “authentic”.

This is all a product of “Cab Simulation” not “Amp Modeling”. I can assure you that running an Axe FX III preset that uses the JVM 410H amp model into a power amp (for that matter insert the Axe FX output directly into the effect return of your JVM to bypass the JVM preamp) and then running the signal into the 4x12 (or 2x12) that you always use, you would not be able to distinguish the modeled amp from the real amp.
USA Jackson Dinky DK1 Custom Shop (2018)
Ibanez JEM 7V WH - Japan (2005)
Suhr Modern Custom (2010)
Ibanez J Custom RG1502S - Japan (1998)
Gibson Les Paul Axcess Alex Lifeson Signature (2012)
Fender American Standard 60th Anniversary Commemorative Stratocaster (2014)
Charvel Satchel Signature Pro Mod DK - Re-finished, OFR, Schaller tuners (2018)
USA Jackson SL2H (2015)
Jackson RR5 (2009)
Ovation Collectors Series (2007)
Marshall JVM 410 HJS - Stock (4CM)
Fractal Audio Axe FX III (4CM & FRFR)
Marshall 1960 TV (4CM)
XiTone Michael Britt Active 1x12 (FRFR)
Fractal Audio Systems FC-6
EBTech Hum Eliminator HE-8
Furman P-1800 AR
Furman P-1800 PF R

Greg_L
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by Greg_L » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:42 pm

But why on earth would you run an AxeFx JVM model through an actual JVM?

You already have a real JVM! WTF! smilie=icon_lol.gif
My gear list? Do a search.

erpece
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:46 am

Greg_L wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:42 pm
But why on earth would you run an AxeFx JVM model through an actual JVM?

You already have a real JVM! WTF! smilie=icon_lol.gif
Yeah, that seems silly - but the point he is trying to make is that amp modelling works great in a certain setup and depends on how we perceive tone.

I use a Helix with my JVM and really like being able to switch between the JVM preamp and other preamps in the Helix. I am in a rock coverband, so that's a biggie.
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

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