Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

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CaptNasty
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:34 pm

Greg_L wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:42 pm
But why on earth would you run an AxeFx JVM model through an actual JVM?

You already have a real JVM! WTF! smilie=icon_lol.gif
Lol. Erpece nailed it. Doing that would let you easily compare the amp model to the real thing and would remove the near field mic issue. That is a setup that I would only use for purposes of experimenting.

For the purpose of such an experiment, using the JVM Power section would eliminate another potential source of tone coloration: the power amp. Such a setup would allow you to do a good evaluation of amp modeling by ensuring that the major components that are unrelated to amp modeling (the cab sim and the power amp) are “like - like”.

I set up 2 presets. One preset used the Axe in 4cm mode with no amp modeling (i.e. used the real JVM preamp and the JVM Power amp). The second used the Axe III JVM 410 HJS amp model with the real JVM Power amp only (bypassed the real JVM preamp). It kind of blew me away to be able to toggle between them. I could not reliably distinguish the real amp from the Axe FX. I had my sons who also play come over and blind tested them. I played 10 samplings choosing one of the presets arbitrarily each time. They did not know which preset I was playing. They picked the real amp correctly 4 of 10 times... essentially a draw.
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kmanick
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by kmanick » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:45 am

thank you captain obvious, that's what I was using, the JSJVM Orange mode, [smilie-eyeroll]
but I've gone back to just using my JVM without the Axe at all anyway.
With an MXR 10 band in the loop I'm getting the best sounds I've ever gotten out of this thing.
I'm probably switching over to a FriedMan PT-20 or a Runt-40 at some point, I'm sick of dragging this thing around
and the Axe FX through the Duncan Power stage well?
..................................... is almost there but not quite for my taste.
JVM210H-NegFB mod, Od2-Od1 Mod-Plexi Mod, Od gain reduction Mod
JCM800 2X12
Recto 2X12
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:11 am

kmanick wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:45 am
thank you captain obvious, that's what I was using, the JSJVM Orange mode, [smilie-eyeroll]
but I've gone back to just using my JVM without the Axe at all anyway.
With an MXR 10 band in the loop I'm getting the best sounds I've ever gotten out of this thing.
I'm probably switching over to a FriedMan PT-20 or a Runt-40 at some point, I'm sick of dragging this thing around
and the Axe FX through the Duncan Power stage well?
..................................... is almost there but not quite for my taste.
I had a BE-100 at home for a while that belonged to a friend and initially I was blown away by the souped up Marshall sounds it produced. It's a one trick pony and does that very well. Guess what - after a couple of weeks I got frustrated I could not really dial in an authentic classic ('inferior'? ;-) Marshall tone.

Went back to my HJS - all happy. BUT - It would be very nice if Marshall made a 20W JVM head, that would save a lot of weight.
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by Greg_L » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:05 pm

erpece wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:11 am


I had a BE-100 at home for a while that belonged to a friend and initially I was blown away by the souped up Marshall sounds it produced. It's a one trick pony and does that very well. Guess what - after a couple of weeks I got frustrated I could not really dial in an authentic classic ('inferior'? ;-) Marshall tone.

Went back to my HJS - all happy. BUT - It would be very nice if Marshall made a 20W JVM head, that would save a lot of weight.
That's true. I love the BE-100. It sounds awesome at what it does. But it never really does anything else. I've got one in my studio right now doing some reamping. It's great at thick saturated Marshall sounds. But for all of it's bells and whistles, it's not so great at milder crunch or classic rock tones.
My gear list? Do a search.

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by mohi » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:48 pm

CaptNasty wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:34 pm
In thinking ahout it, this is what I find interesting.

We listening to recording artists and we go out and buy guitars, amps, and gear in an attempt to sound like the tones we have heard and like. We setup, play, and wonder why our rig doesn’t sound like the tones we are trying to replicate” “WTF! I got Joe Satriani’s amp, his guitar, his entire signal chain but it is not even close!”

This happens in part because a recording is just like an IR: it is a near field mic capture of a small segment of a complete audio field. So we cannot get album tones from a guitar rig precisely because of the “amp in the room” effect versus the near field mic’d tone we hear on albums.

So along comes a product that lets us precisely replicate the signal chains and album tones that we have chased for years. It uses near field IR captures and can precisely replicate recorded tones. So what do we do? We complain that it does not sound like “the amp in the room”, that it does not feel “authentic”.
haha that is so true, the other day I made the experiment of comparing my 80´s JCM800 thru a reactive load against the Axe model, same cab, it was so close ... the modeled head is said to be a bit bright, and a 50W, and those details were clear on the comparison. To me the tube thing is cool from time to time to warm uo the room but man, as bedroom player and for recording, it is pure magic. have to try it through a powered cab, and I am sure it will sound terrific as well.

I already sold my YJM, any of the plexi models of the Axe sounded better at neighbor friendly volumes, don`t want to sell the rest but it is difficult for me to justify keeping them in practical terms.
Marshall JVM410C: TAD HPS V1, TAD PS V2, TAD Std V3, EH V4, Mods: Plexi Cap, Choke, K77
Marshall YJM100
Marshall JCM800 1981

CaptNasty
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 am

mohi wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:48 pm
haha that is so true, the other day I made the experiment of comparing my 80´s JCM800 thru a reactive load against the Axe model, same cab, it was so close ... the modeled head is said to be a bit bright, and a 50W, and those details were clear on the comparison. To me the tube thing is cool from time to time to warm uo the room but man, as bedroom player and for recording, it is pure magic. have to try it through a powered cab, and I am sure it will sound terrific as well.

I already sold my YJM, any of the plexi models of the Axe sounded better at neighbor friendly volumes, don`t want to sell the rest but it is difficult for me to justify keeping them in practical terms.
You really nailed it there. Neighbor friendly volume. That really is where the Axe and a lot of tube amps separate.

In all fairness the JVM is an amp that by design has great tones at bedroom volumes. Does it open up at higher volumes? Yes to a degree, but there are great tones to be had without rattling the neighbors teeth. But the JVM is more the exception than the rule in the tube amp world.

The ability to get great bedroom tones from amp models like the YJM is IMO a real game changer. As I have written before, with the state of amp modeling in the Axe FX it is the IRs (Cabinet Simulation) where most of the deviation is occurring in A/B tests, not the amp model.

What I have done is integrated my JVM with the Axe FX using 4CM. I can use the JVM preamp + JVM power amp with the Axe FX as an FX only unit or use the Axe FX preamp (I.e. amp modeling with no cab sim) + the JVM Power amp this way. When using the Axe this way, I am using my 1960 TV cabinet, so I get that “amp in the room” feel. I also have an FRFR speaker integrated for when I want to use both amp modeling and cab sims on the Axe. This way I can have my cake and eat it too.
USA Jackson Dinky DK1 Custom Shop (2018)
Ibanez JEM 7V WH - Japan (2005)
Suhr Modern Custom (2010)
Ibanez J Custom RG1502S - Japan (1998)
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Fender American Standard 60th Anniversary Commemorative Stratocaster (2014)
Charvel Satchel Signature Pro Mod DK - Re-finished, OFR, Schaller tuners (2018)
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Marshall JVM 410 HJS - Stock (4CM)
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by aberry9475 » Thu May 16, 2019 2:21 am

I see no reason to hate on the Axe-Fx. If it sounds good, then it is good. Don't even second guess it.

I'm just a traditionalist. I like tubes. I like seeing them in the back of the box, cooking away. Hearing the different sounds and feel they impart when the master volume is turned up. Experimenting with different ones.

I liken it to cars. Tesla P100D or '69 Camaro? I'd gladly take either, but admittedly, I'd do the Camaro first. Or, for that matter, a nice short bed 454 C10 pickup.

Also like cars, I could build my C10 the way I do my pedals and occasional amps. The Tesla, it just comes to you, and there ain't nothing wrong with that. Just different.

Glad you like it! Any experience on the Axe-Fx vs. Kemper?

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm

aberry9475 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:21 am
I see no reason to hate on the Axe-Fx. If it sounds good, then it is good. Don't even second guess it.

I'm just a traditionalist. I like tubes. I like seeing them in the back of the box, cooking away. Hearing the different sounds and feel they impart when the master volume is turned up. Experimenting with different ones.

I liken it to cars. Tesla P100D or '69 Camaro? I'd gladly take either, but admittedly, I'd do the Camaro first. Or, for that matter, a nice short bed 454 C10 pickup.

Also like cars, I could build my C10 the way I do my pedals and occasional amps. The Tesla, it just comes to you, and there ain't nothing wrong with that. Just different.

Glad you like it! Any experience on the Axe-Fx vs. Kemper?
Not hating on the Axe FX, I own one and love it. I also own a JVM 410HJS and also love it. So I brought them both together and now I really love them.

As far as Kemper and Axe, I have some recent experience with Kemper. I will start by saying KPA is another great piece of equipment, but it is very different than the Axe FX. They are two different technologies. Axe FX is a modeler whereas KPA is a profiler. Modelers seek to model the components of an amplifier, profilers capture and store a specific tone.

I don’t see it as KPA versus Axe FX as a lot of people want to. They are too dissimilar. The way I see it, KPA is an outstanding solution for a guy that has multiple amps and wants to easily capture and repeatedly replicate specific tones he has dialed in on his amps so he can tote around one amp instead of many. This could tremendously simplify a stage setup. With the KPA you are profiling a specific tone then storing it. You can add effects. But it is not an amp model and does not behave like one when you tweak the sound.

The Axe FX is more for the guy that wants a bunch of rigs too, but does not want to be limited to only profiled sounds. You want a browned out 1959 Super Lead? Drop the amp model on your preset and dial in the brown sound. With the Axe FX you are dialing in sounds the same way you would on a real amp: setting gain, MV, tone stack and the amp model respond faithfully to the way the corresponding real amp would.

I think that they are two great products that provide two completely different sets of features. Sure in the end it all ends up driving a guitar tone. The difference is in how they go about doing that.

TL;DR If you want a perfectly tweaked tone right out of the gate and don't like twisting a lot of knobs; Kemper. If you like building rigs from scratch and love tweaking / having control over every parameter; Axe-FX.
USA Jackson Dinky DK1 Custom Shop (2018)
Ibanez JEM 7V WH - Japan (2005)
Suhr Modern Custom (2010)
Ibanez J Custom RG1502S - Japan (1998)
Gibson Les Paul Axcess Alex Lifeson Signature (2012)
Fender American Standard 60th Anniversary Commemorative Stratocaster (2014)
Charvel Satchel Signature Pro Mod DK - Re-finished, OFR, Schaller tuners (2018)
USA Jackson SL2H (2015)
Jackson RR5 (2009)
Ovation Collectors Series (2007)
Marshall JVM 410 HJS - Stock (4CM)
Fractal Audio Axe FX III (4CM & FRFR)
Marshall 1960 TV (4CM)
XiTone Michael Britt Active 1x12 (FRFR)
Fractal Audio Systems FC-6
EBTech Hum Eliminator HE-8
Furman P-1800 AR
Furman P-1800 PF R

RockmanCentral
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by RockmanCentral » Thu May 16, 2019 11:51 pm

CaptNasty wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm
L;DR If you want a perfectly tweaked tone right out of the gate and don't like twisting a lot of knobs; Kemper. If you like building rigs from scratch and love tweaking / having control over every parameter; Axe-FX.
I would disagree somewhat...

There are a ton of tweaking options in the Kemper. It's arguable whether or not they behave exactly like the source amp, though I don't know how much that really matters as long as you can still get great tones out of it.. which you definitely can.

What I like about the Kemper is that by profiling the amp/effects with the tones already tweaked, it saves a lot of time and effort by not having to tweak it as much later. I find that once I get a good profile, I only make minor changes from there anyway... usually just boosting treble and volume a little for a lead tone or adding different effects, which don't affect the base profile that much, if at all.

I do agree though that there's many different ways to get a great tone.
Gear:
Marshall JVM 410HJS - -ve Feedback
Kemper Profiling Rack
Two Notes Torpedo Live
Marshall 1960 HW Stack - G12H-30's
Marshall 1960 Lead Stack - G12T-75's
Rockman Stack with Rev 20 Sustainor
Rockman XP212, XP100a
Echoplex EP3 - Hyperspace Pedal
Gibson Collectors Choice #10 Tom Scholz 68 Les Paul Goldtop
PRS SE 24 Custom Floyd - Sustainiac, DiMarzio Super Distortion, Graph Tech LB63 Floyd Rose, Acoustiphonic preamp
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