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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:07 am 
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Just stumbled upon this:

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=483409

If anyone plays one post your findings...curious to see what they're all about. [smilie=icon_confused.gif]
I owned a Shiva (w/ EL-34s) once and thought it was one of the best amps I've ever played.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:24 am 
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Hmmmm, interesting....
I was looking at buying a Shiva when I bought my JVM.
I went with the JVM because of all the channels.
And the fact that I couldn't find a Shiva to test drive.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:00 am 
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Okay, I have never played a Bogner before. But I keep hearing a lot of buzz about them. I know this is a very subjective thing, but need to ask the question:

Compared to a JVM, what makes Bogner (the higher end models) such a sought after amp? For the significant bump in price tag, what features would make a serious musician pick them over say a JVM?

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Last edited by Machine Pagan on Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:26 pm 
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Machine Pagan wrote:
Compared to a JVM, what makes Bogner (the higher end models) such a sought after amp? For the significant bump in price tag, why features would make a serious pick them over say a JVM?


I 'm not too good at describing sound/tone as far as comparing one amp to another, but I'll give it a shot. I currently own 3 Bogners-an Ecstasy 101b, Uberschall, and a Duende-as well as aJVM410H. Of the Bogners, the XTC is the most similar to the JVM in terms of versatility and the range of tones covered.
IMO, the XTC has a more organic feel and is more harmonically 'rich', if that makes sense, particularly when the power amp is working a bit. Also seems to be better note definition and articulation with the XTC, and I find the entire gain range useable on all channels of the XTC. The XTC is also more tweakable in terms of eq with the bright and excursion switches, as well as t, m, b, & prescence. The JVM does have more gain, I think, and is probably the better choice for modern metal. As far as the clean ch, they're both equally good, IMO, once you learn how to set the XTC clean channel up -depends on what you like; I find the XTC cleans to be a bit brighter. JVM is also MIDI switchable out of the box, whereas the XTC requires a special 'Medusa' cable for MIDI. Xtc also has a 1/2 power switch, and an 'old' (triode) vs 'new' (pentode) switch, which together can cut power to about 25w, I think, and give a squishier (is that a word?) feel. Theres also an option for a class a/ab switch (for about $300 more, I think). As far as the XTC being worth the extra $, that's hard to say. I bought my JVM for $1750, before the price hike, and the XTC for around $3300. For my purposes, playing & recording at home (9 week old daughter, no time for playing out at the moment [smilie=icon_cry.gif] ) I prefer the XTC, but it isn't twice as good as the JVM, as reflected by the prices. About 1/2 of what I play is metal. If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably go with the JVM and pocket the extra $. It'd be a hard choice, though.
The Uber and Duende are nowhere near as versatile as the XTC. The Uber is a bada**, over the top, gain monster, but the clean channel is only so-so. I've heard the Duende described as a Fender Tweed on steroids, but I have no experience w/Tweeds, so I can't comment. It is one hell of a fun little (15w combo) amp, and tone-wise is every bit as good as the XTC, just different. All 3 have that distinct Bogner voicing, which I personally love. The build quality & reliability of the Bogners is also excellent.
Sorry for being so long-winded, hope this somewhat answers your question.

p.s. don't take my post as bashing the JVM. I love my JVM, and have had no problems with it whatsoever. I just love tge Bogner a wee bit more [smilie=icon_wink.gif]

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:57 pm 
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Big RWT,

Sounds like quite a few selling points for the Bogners. Thanks for the comparision. Oh shit, now I have to go test drive one . . . Maybe the XTC.

BTW, how does the Shiva fit in the line up? I am guessing this amp has more of a vintage Plexi vibe with the lead channel added?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Machine Pagan,

Forgot to mention a rather important feature on the XTC-Plexi mode, which can be assigned to either of the 2 gain channels. Plexi mode with the power tubes cookin is absolutely awesome, IMO.
I've only played around with a Shiva once, for maybe 30 minutes. Its more along the lines of a classic rock amp, not high gain by any means, but it sounded great-very organic & 3d sounding. And the cleans are among the best I've ever played or heard-absolutely to die for. I think Jerry Cantrell is using Shivas now. It can be had in either a 6L6 or EL34 flavor (one or the other-can't switch between tube types, ala Mesa DR).

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:15 pm 
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I met bogner at the NY amp show (super nice guy!) The new cheap amp he has was there, he played it for me, (with that great tele he has). The amp sounded great and the built in effects (delay and reverb) sounded awesome. I also had a Shiva head 6l6's with reverb (wanted an XTC but couldn't afford it) I loved the Shiva's clean sound, that's the special sound of the Shiva IMHO. The 2nd channel left me cold. the distortion was really bright and cold sounding. I was very disapointed in my Shiva, i even sent it back, to Bogner, to have it switched to EL34's (I'm a Marshall guy) I played a couple of gigs with the shiva and sold it. The new amp ( The Alchemist ) sounded nothing like my shiva. The Alchemist didn't sound like a Marshall IMHO either. I would say more like a hot rodded fender. I hope the production models sound as good? her's a demo from the amp show i was at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ22kjf3 ... re=related

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:04 pm 
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I tried the Alchemist out through a 412 Saturday turned up to a reasonable volume and wasn't blown away. My 6505 has a better sound IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:29 pm 
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For what it's worth The Alchemist is designed by Bogner and built by Line6, got that from my guy at Washington Music, his take on it was it is decent for the money but nothing spectacular. I have not played one yet but I am curious.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:55 pm 
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hotthands wrote:
For what it's worth The Alchemist is designed by Bogner and built by Line6, got that from my guy at Washington Music, his take on it was it is decent for the money but nothing spectacular. I have not played one yet but I am curious.


banana_rasta


Pretty sure you are correct regarding the Bogner/Line 6 partnership on this one. Musician's Friend's latest cat has a one page ad/infomercial review on the Alchemist--both Bogner and Line 6's brand are on the ad.

During a recent interview, Mr. Bogner stated it was manufactured in China.

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