db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Hotplate, Cables, Keyboard or Kazoo. Mandolin or Mixer. Banjo or Balalaika. If it doesn't fit anywhere else, stick it here.

Moderators: Dark Horse, jimsreynolds, Jackie, Andy

Post Reply
User avatar
bitsleftover
Private Parties
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:14 pm
Location: Cheshire UK

db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by bitsleftover » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:34 am

Hi there,
This is just a general non JVM question to the knowledgeable members here.
Im looking at attenuators to knock the volume back on some non MV amps.
When referring to levels of attenuation, how do figures like 4db, 12db etc relate to perceivable loudness?
I read somewhere that 12db will be 1/4 reduction. But does the same concept of watts not equating to loudness apply to db?
My first application will be a Fender Tweed Princeton clone which weighs in at a hefty 4 watts!
Thanks for any light you can shed on the subject.
Cheers
JVM215C Plexi cap, OD2-OD1, 5H choke, anti stiffness mod, -ve feedback pot, OD gain reduction pot. Anti compression mod, 2203mod, fat switch. Celestion Vintage 30. HJS Bright cap mods.Line Out mud removal and level pot.
Line6 HD500.
1995 Gibson Les Paul
Fender Classic Player 50s Strat
Epiphone 335Pro
Squire Classic Vibe Custom Tele
Chibson P90 SG Clone
1991 Ibanez RG550 Lazer Blue
Westfield E4000 LP copy
Westfield E1000 60s Strat copy
1960 Blonde Esquire Partscaster Clone
Crafter GAE8
Yamaha FG402s
Juketone Royal Blood 8 Tweed Priceton Clone (Rehoused in Finger jointed Solid Pine "Big Box cab with VVR and NFB switch.
Shitloads of stomp boxes. mainly ODs, Boosts, Wahs and a modded Cry Baby. Gathering dust.

User avatar
jimsreynolds
World Tour
Posts: 2511
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:18 am
Location: Essex, UK. Maybe.

Re: db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by jimsreynolds » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:08 am

As I understand it, real world 'loudness' is measured as Sound Pressure Level (SPL) and this is related to the efficiency of speakers. An increase of 6dB SPL means that the perceived sound is twice as loud. This ties in with your 12dB cut being a quarter volume.

How that relates to attenuators... I can see how they could quote the dB of attenuation of power input to the speaker but not for the output. Each speaker will have its own efficiencies with some drastically louder in practice than others. The voicing is also key to how loud you perceive it.

So yeah I don't think you can directly relate dB attenuation to dB SPL out with a general rule.. An attenuator vendor might quote it for a specific loaded cab but not as a generic thing . Happy to stand corrected but I think that is right.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

JimBOB

-------------------------------------------
Amps:

Guitars:
  • 70s hard-tail Strat with EMG 89/SA actives. Gibson "The Paul" with bridge P-Rails, Triple-shot, Roland GK-3 and Torres Tone Mods. Gretsch 6119 Tennessee Rose. PRS SE Semi-Hollow w/Bigsby, Squier Affinity Tele (Modded), Falk "Splitter", Taylor T5, Ibanez RG2610E
    Taylor DN3 Acoustic w/Rare Earth Blend, Ovation Celebrity 6/12 Acoustic, Martin 000X1AE, Rally Resonator, Stretton Payne 12-string.
FX:
  • Joyos galore! T-Rex Moller, TC Flashback X4, MXR '78 Distortion, Crybaby, Line 6 HD500 - 4CM & MIDI switching, (retired), Boss GT8 (retired)

User avatar
jimsreynolds
World Tour
Posts: 2511
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:18 am
Location: Essex, UK. Maybe.

Re: db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by jimsreynolds » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:14 am

Although reading the article here, I think I may have it a bit twisted up. I need to review this when I have woken up a bit. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

JimBOB

-------------------------------------------
Amps:

Guitars:
  • 70s hard-tail Strat with EMG 89/SA actives. Gibson "The Paul" with bridge P-Rails, Triple-shot, Roland GK-3 and Torres Tone Mods. Gretsch 6119 Tennessee Rose. PRS SE Semi-Hollow w/Bigsby, Squier Affinity Tele (Modded), Falk "Splitter", Taylor T5, Ibanez RG2610E
    Taylor DN3 Acoustic w/Rare Earth Blend, Ovation Celebrity 6/12 Acoustic, Martin 000X1AE, Rally Resonator, Stretton Payne 12-string.
FX:
  • Joyos galore! T-Rex Moller, TC Flashback X4, MXR '78 Distortion, Crybaby, Line 6 HD500 - 4CM & MIDI switching, (retired), Boss GT8 (retired)

User avatar
Greg_L
Club Circuit
Posts: 662
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:30 pm

Re: db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by Greg_L » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:46 am

bitsleftover wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:34 am
Hi there,
This is just a general non JVM question to the knowledgeable members here.
Im looking at attenuators to knock the volume back on some non MV amps.
When referring to levels of attenuation, how do figures like 4db, 12db etc relate to perceivable loudness?
I read somewhere that 12db will be 1/4 reduction. But does the same concept of watts not equating to loudness apply to db?
My first application will be a Fender Tweed Princeton clone which weighs in at a hefty 4 watts!
Thanks for any light you can shed on the subject.
Cheers
Get an attenuator that doesn't step it's attenuation and you won't have to worry about it. There are many attenuators with a smooth sweep that act like an actual volume control.
My gear list? Do a search.

User avatar
bitsleftover
Private Parties
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:14 pm
Location: Cheshire UK

Re: db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by bitsleftover » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:11 am

Thanks Jim n Greg.
I think the db is probably the most confusing and confused units of measure ever to be dreamed up.
I'm going to class it under the category of things that should not be understood. Along with where all the odd socks end up, where the teaspoons all disappear to, why don't heavy ships sink and how does 'lift' actually work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JVM215C Plexi cap, OD2-OD1, 5H choke, anti stiffness mod, -ve feedback pot, OD gain reduction pot. Anti compression mod, 2203mod, fat switch. Celestion Vintage 30. HJS Bright cap mods.Line Out mud removal and level pot.
Line6 HD500.
1995 Gibson Les Paul
Fender Classic Player 50s Strat
Epiphone 335Pro
Squire Classic Vibe Custom Tele
Chibson P90 SG Clone
1991 Ibanez RG550 Lazer Blue
Westfield E4000 LP copy
Westfield E1000 60s Strat copy
1960 Blonde Esquire Partscaster Clone
Crafter GAE8
Yamaha FG402s
Juketone Royal Blood 8 Tweed Priceton Clone (Rehoused in Finger jointed Solid Pine "Big Box cab with VVR and NFB switch.
Shitloads of stomp boxes. mainly ODs, Boosts, Wahs and a modded Cry Baby. Gathering dust.

User avatar
jimsreynolds
World Tour
Posts: 2511
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:18 am
Location: Essex, UK. Maybe.

Re: db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by jimsreynolds » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:04 pm

bitsleftover wrote:Thanks Jim n Greg.
I think the db is probably the most confusing and confused units of measure ever to be dreamed up.
I'm going to class it under the category of things that should not be understood. Along with where all the odd socks end up, where the teaspoons all disappear to, why don't heavy ships sink and how does 'lift' actually work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll drink to that!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

JimBOB

-------------------------------------------
Amps:

Guitars:
  • 70s hard-tail Strat with EMG 89/SA actives. Gibson "The Paul" with bridge P-Rails, Triple-shot, Roland GK-3 and Torres Tone Mods. Gretsch 6119 Tennessee Rose. PRS SE Semi-Hollow w/Bigsby, Squier Affinity Tele (Modded), Falk "Splitter", Taylor T5, Ibanez RG2610E
    Taylor DN3 Acoustic w/Rare Earth Blend, Ovation Celebrity 6/12 Acoustic, Martin 000X1AE, Rally Resonator, Stretton Payne 12-string.
FX:
  • Joyos galore! T-Rex Moller, TC Flashback X4, MXR '78 Distortion, Crybaby, Line 6 HD500 - 4CM & MIDI switching, (retired), Boss GT8 (retired)

User avatar
bitsleftover
Private Parties
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:14 pm
Location: Cheshire UK

Re: db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by bitsleftover » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:50 pm

Yeah fuck it Jimbo! Let's get a beer while we let the jcm800 over rated thread rage for a while.
I was working away in Dusseldorf today. Which, 5 minutes after getting out of work, I realised is the most chilled, laid back, easy going beer drinkers, meat eaters paradise on earth! Rock bands playing in the parks, pop up bars next to the river, great food being served on the streets, absolutly everyone having a good time and not one single dick acting like an idiot like I'd find at home by 8pm any niggt. A city that needs zero db attenuation! 🤣


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JVM215C Plexi cap, OD2-OD1, 5H choke, anti stiffness mod, -ve feedback pot, OD gain reduction pot. Anti compression mod, 2203mod, fat switch. Celestion Vintage 30. HJS Bright cap mods.Line Out mud removal and level pot.
Line6 HD500.
1995 Gibson Les Paul
Fender Classic Player 50s Strat
Epiphone 335Pro
Squire Classic Vibe Custom Tele
Chibson P90 SG Clone
1991 Ibanez RG550 Lazer Blue
Westfield E4000 LP copy
Westfield E1000 60s Strat copy
1960 Blonde Esquire Partscaster Clone
Crafter GAE8
Yamaha FG402s
Juketone Royal Blood 8 Tweed Priceton Clone (Rehoused in Finger jointed Solid Pine "Big Box cab with VVR and NFB switch.
Shitloads of stomp boxes. mainly ODs, Boosts, Wahs and a modded Cry Baby. Gathering dust.

User avatar
jimsreynolds
World Tour
Posts: 2511
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:18 am
Location: Essex, UK. Maybe.

Re: db's of attenuation = how much loudness

Post by jimsreynolds » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:42 pm

Some places just have that vibe. Music is part of the furniture. Raise a beer to that.!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

JimBOB

-------------------------------------------
Amps:

Guitars:
  • 70s hard-tail Strat with EMG 89/SA actives. Gibson "The Paul" with bridge P-Rails, Triple-shot, Roland GK-3 and Torres Tone Mods. Gretsch 6119 Tennessee Rose. PRS SE Semi-Hollow w/Bigsby, Squier Affinity Tele (Modded), Falk "Splitter", Taylor T5, Ibanez RG2610E
    Taylor DN3 Acoustic w/Rare Earth Blend, Ovation Celebrity 6/12 Acoustic, Martin 000X1AE, Rally Resonator, Stretton Payne 12-string.
FX:
  • Joyos galore! T-Rex Moller, TC Flashback X4, MXR '78 Distortion, Crybaby, Line 6 HD500 - 4CM & MIDI switching, (retired), Boss GT8 (retired)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest