Designing New Effects Pedals

Stuff that alters the sound going in or out of the amp, JVM Loops, XLR Out, Line Out, Stereo setup with 2 amps, Midi

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okgb
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Location: The Great White North-Winnipeg

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by okgb » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:01 pm

Wow! nice work that seemed quick but I guess when you're inspired

It seems to have all the right words [ controls ] looks exciting , I imagine it'll make playing into a d.i. easier, feel better
[ I have a few tube preamps I use that sound pretty good into the ada ]
I wonder what it sounds like on a direct gtr signal ? or through your ada speaker sim ?

you're right about the ampulator , always wanted one but they were pricey , they had a hum control to add hum for realism !
I recall tech 21 have some kind of pwr amp as a distortion pedal circuit, must have been discontinued , couldn't find it.

Names? Power Control , Power factor, Electro force, Power link, EMF force factor , power oven , power cooker
power burner, Amp ignitor [ sound like ampulator ] power ignitor, pretty sure power drive has been used.
Loco drive, action inter action , drive action
Amps JVM 410H [too many mods to mention ] '73 50w lead, 70's vibrochamp , mesa mkIII U.S. Vox pacemaker
Rock , pop rock & Blues style's mainly played
Gtr's Musicanman " Luke " wolfgang [ carved top w pearly gates ] Hondo lazer , Warmoth strat
Fx t.c. 2290 , Lexicon tc verb
Pedals tbone plexi , t.c. chorus , various handmade & usual suspects t.s. , zen , CB wah ..........

Casey_Butt
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Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by Casey_Butt » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:18 pm

okgb wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:01 pm
Wow! nice work that seemed quick but I guess when you're inspired
I thought it came together quick too... but when I think about it, I've been years mulling that sort of thing over. In fact, the first pedal I ever bought was an Arion "Tube Mania" because it was marketed as the "Ultimate Tube Amp Simulation" that "captures all the sizzling highs, blaa, blaa, blaa". I was under the misguided impression that it would at least attempt to do something like it says but in reality it's the worst sounding Rat-based piece of sh!t I ever heard. I still have it and probably turned it on a total of three times for 30 seconds in 35 years. But it does show that even back then the idea of a pedal that could give solid-state gear that magic touch of tubeyness was something that always appealed to me. Strange that no great deal of effort was ever put into it by the big companies. I'm sure someone like Boss could have sold boatloads of such a pedal back in the heyday when every kid wanted a Marshall stack but instead had a 10W Gorilla with a 6" speaker and three knobs. :))
okgb wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:01 pm
It seems to have all the right words [ controls ] looks exciting , I imagine it'll make playing into a d.i. easier, feel better
[ I have a few tube preamps I use that sound pretty good into the ada ]
I wonder what it sounds like on a direct gtr signal ? or through your ada speaker sim ?
Well, that's essentially the idea. It's almost impossible for most people to tell a good solid-state preamp from a tube preamp (because the clipping is easy to copy and there's no amount of sag involved) but the "stiffness" and "precision" of a solid-state power amp gives it away from a more reactive and dynamic tube power amp every time. The idea with that pedal is to give the solid-state chain the dynamics of a tube power amp and also the compression and clipping that a tube amp adds to a hot preamp signal. It's pretty obvious that even though many preamps can sound fine going DI through a speaker sim, there's still something missing - a power amp. I think it's a critical piece of the puzzle that no one other than A/DA and perhaps Tech 21 at one point have taken a stab at.
okgb wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:01 pm
you're right about the ampulator , always wanted one but they were pricey , they had a hum control to add hum for realism !
Me too! But from what I've heard the speaker emulation in the Ampulator sounds way too dark and muffled - so I don't think we've missed much. The MicroCabs were better in that regard, but still too dark and comb filterish. Perhaps they've solved it with the new GCS pedals? I don't know whether the Ampulator never went anywhere because the MP-1 sounded so good on its own, it was overpriced, or the speaker emulation didn't sound good. What I think they should have done is leave the speaker emulation out of the Ampulator (leave that to the MicroCab) and sell it as just a dedicated power amp emulator. That way they'd have the three components - MP-1 preamp, Ampulator and MicroCab - as three components for a total D.I. rig (for recording or into a clean hi-fi power amp).
okgb wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:01 pm
Names? Power Control , Power factor, Electro force, Power link, EMF force factor , power oven , power cooker
power burner, Amp ignitor [ sound like ampulator ] power ignitor, pretty sure power drive has been used.
Loco drive, action inter action , drive action
Wow, your right brain is really working. My left brain decided my right brain was useless and annexed it years ago. :))
_ JVM410H: "Blackface" Clean channel, "Plexi" Crunch channel, "Dual Rec" OD2 channel, 3rd stage bias pot with switchable 100nF bypass cap, switchable 470k/470pF "treble peaker", OD1/2 Orange and Red extra gain pot, signal boost into power amp, PI voltage set to 2203 levels, 5H choke w/ 50uF on screens, -ve feedback pot.
_ Marshall 2203/1959 clone - switchable (with FX loop, resonance control and -ve fb pot) built from a Peavey Windsor 'donor' head
_ Fender Deluxe Reverb clone head
_ ADA MP-1, ART Power Plant, Tech 21 PSA-1
_ 1960A cab w/ Celestion G12-65s and G12-75Ts in X-pattern, Peavey JSX cab with Celestion G12M's (UK 6402 cones)
_ Fender Pro 185 (rebuilt) - open back 2x12" with Jensen C12Ks

okgb
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Location: The Great White North-Winnipeg

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by okgb » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:07 pm

yeah , takes no mind to shovel out some brown stuff, how about Honest amps Genuine pwr section [ emulator in small font ]

I have an ada mp1 that I like and enjoy playing it, however it's not until I play another device right after that I feel it's a little " small "
maybe compressed sounding, mind you this is not usually playing too LOUD .

Maybe you could get more preset forms of your emulator licensed to Name companies Tweaked to their product!
Amps JVM 410H [too many mods to mention ] '73 50w lead, 70's vibrochamp , mesa mkIII U.S. Vox pacemaker
Rock , pop rock & Blues style's mainly played
Gtr's Musicanman " Luke " wolfgang [ carved top w pearly gates ] Hondo lazer , Warmoth strat
Fx t.c. 2290 , Lexicon tc verb
Pedals tbone plexi , t.c. chorus , various handmade & usual suspects t.s. , zen , CB wah ..........

Casey_Butt
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Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by Casey_Butt » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:48 pm

okgb wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:07 pm
I have an ada mp1 that I like and enjoy playing it, however it's not until I play another device right after that I feel it's a little " small "
maybe compressed sounding, mind you this is not usually playing too LOUD .
I know what you mean. I think that "smallness" is why the MP-1 was so often teamed up with a BBE Sonic Maximizer.
Maybe you could get more preset forms of your emulator licensed to Name companies Tweaked to their product!
Closely related versions, like the Tech 21 "Character Series" sort of thing.

I'm looking forward to tweaking that pedal. Not so much in terms of voicing (which can't be tweaked much anyway because it has to conform to a tube power amp), but the dynamics. In order to emulate power supply sag - which results in lower headroom, compression and clipping - I had to come up with gain stages corresponding to the phase inverter and power tubes that compress and clip more with hard pick strikes and higher volume levels, and then release out of compression and clipping as the signal fades (corresponding to the power supply recovering the voltage in a tube amp). In a sense, it's like a "dynamic" overdrive pedal that adjusts its clipping and gain structure according to the signal level. It's very much a feel thing - almost like tweaking the release function on a compressor.

Also, the CONFIG function actually splits the signal into two signals 180* out of phase with each other (mimicking a phase inverter) and you can then apply clipping symmetrically or asymmetrically based on the BIAS control setting. You can set the pedal to generate a huge amount of 2nd and 4th order harmonics if you wish - that's sort of freaky because no pedals I'm aware of make any great degree of even order harmonics. It's very warm, like a very old Fender pushed too hard. Then by simply turning the BIAS knob you can hear the harmonic structure changing and tightening up. I don't want to allow myself to go down that path now, but there's one hell of a "dynamic overdrive" pedal in there if I wanted to adapt it that way.
_ JVM410H: "Blackface" Clean channel, "Plexi" Crunch channel, "Dual Rec" OD2 channel, 3rd stage bias pot with switchable 100nF bypass cap, switchable 470k/470pF "treble peaker", OD1/2 Orange and Red extra gain pot, signal boost into power amp, PI voltage set to 2203 levels, 5H choke w/ 50uF on screens, -ve feedback pot.
_ Marshall 2203/1959 clone - switchable (with FX loop, resonance control and -ve fb pot) built from a Peavey Windsor 'donor' head
_ Fender Deluxe Reverb clone head
_ ADA MP-1, ART Power Plant, Tech 21 PSA-1
_ 1960A cab w/ Celestion G12-65s and G12-75Ts in X-pattern, Peavey JSX cab with Celestion G12M's (UK 6402 cones)
_ Fender Pro 185 (rebuilt) - open back 2x12" with Jensen C12Ks

okgb
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Posts: 712
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: The Great White North-Winnipeg

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by okgb » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:04 am

very cool and how does it sound with a boost into it? or a clean preamp pushed?
[ if you can get that cranked deluxe sound well, ...... ]
Amps JVM 410H [too many mods to mention ] '73 50w lead, 70's vibrochamp , mesa mkIII U.S. Vox pacemaker
Rock , pop rock & Blues style's mainly played
Gtr's Musicanman " Luke " wolfgang [ carved top w pearly gates ] Hondo lazer , Warmoth strat
Fx t.c. 2290 , Lexicon tc verb
Pedals tbone plexi , t.c. chorus , various handmade & usual suspects t.s. , zen , CB wah ..........

Casey_Butt
World Tour
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by Casey_Butt » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:23 pm

okgb wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:04 am
very cool and how does it sound with a boost into it? or a clean preamp pushed?
It honestly sounds like a tube power amp. Of course, it can't replicate the impact of a 4x12 cabinet pushing big air - you simply need the power to move your pant legs for that. But the basic sound and dynamic behaviour is there.

When I was first working on overdrives I started experimenting with different clipping circuits. The problem I have with tubescreamer circuits is that the way the clipping stage is configured it actually blends the clean signal with the clipped signal by design. That might sound good pushing a crunchy tube amp but it sounds like shit into a clean or solid-state amp. On the other hand, diodes to ground (like a traditional distortion pedal) have that famous picking clarity when the circuit is voiced right but they don't really sound like an amp when you voice them like that. So with the "Overdrive Preamp" I used a traditional overdrive circuit up front for the overdrive section but went with a soft-clipping circuit that doesn't blend the clean signal in for the preamp section. The two together produce a very amp-like sound (without the power amp and speaker emulation, obviously).

That same type of configuration is what Tech 21 uses as the basis for the PSA-1 and Character Series pedals and is what I used up front in the Power Amp Emulator (along with signal dependent clipping stages that are brought in and out of the circuit based on signal level) so it sounds very amp-like when you crank it or push it with something (it would be useless if it didn't!). But the power amp has no voicing to speak of (although it does reduce bandwidth as the MASTER is cranked and DAMPING turned down), so the tone shaping has to take place in the overdrive or preamp that you push it with. Plugging an overdrive into it would sound like plugging an overdrive directly into the 'Power Amp In" jack on an amp. What it does most noticeably is add SAG (if you set it to) and change the harmonic content from odd-order to even-order (or a mixture) depending on how you adjust the CONFIG and CLASS controls. You can sound like you're pushing a Marshall, Fender or Vox power amp depending on how you adjust it. You can adjust so it sounds like it's doing almost nothing or so it completely changes the harmonic content and picking dynamics, depending on how it's set up.

I guess you could say the whole point of it is to take a preamp or amp-in-a-box type pedal (that may sound good but practically all of them are famously "stiff" and "direct" sounding) and add the power amp dynamics and harmonic content that they're missing.

okgb wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:04 am
[ if you can get that cranked deluxe sound well, ...... ]
I haven't gotten that far yet, but I have a Deluxe Reverb clone head that I can compare it to, and several amp-in-a-box Fender type pedals. What I'm going to do is use the AIAB pedals to drive the PAE-1 and see how close I can get. I'll do the same with some Marshall, Vox and Mesa AIAB pedals I have. I've also got a bunch of others things on the burner as well (prototypes, graphics, etc), so I'll probably be a month playing with the PAE-1 before I'm satisfied to sign off on it.
_ JVM410H: "Blackface" Clean channel, "Plexi" Crunch channel, "Dual Rec" OD2 channel, 3rd stage bias pot with switchable 100nF bypass cap, switchable 470k/470pF "treble peaker", OD1/2 Orange and Red extra gain pot, signal boost into power amp, PI voltage set to 2203 levels, 5H choke w/ 50uF on screens, -ve feedback pot.
_ Marshall 2203/1959 clone - switchable (with FX loop, resonance control and -ve fb pot) built from a Peavey Windsor 'donor' head
_ Fender Deluxe Reverb clone head
_ ADA MP-1, ART Power Plant, Tech 21 PSA-1
_ 1960A cab w/ Celestion G12-65s and G12-75Ts in X-pattern, Peavey JSX cab with Celestion G12M's (UK 6402 cones)
_ Fender Pro 185 (rebuilt) - open back 2x12" with Jensen C12Ks

okgb
Club Circuit
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: The Great White North-Winnipeg

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by okgb » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:31 pm

Did I post this one? was never on my radar
" proprietary output circuitry which precisely emulates the behavior of a cranked low power amplifier."

the vht gp3 preamp
http://www.fryette.com/content/GP3_SFD.pdf
Amps JVM 410H [too many mods to mention ] '73 50w lead, 70's vibrochamp , mesa mkIII U.S. Vox pacemaker
Rock , pop rock & Blues style's mainly played
Gtr's Musicanman " Luke " wolfgang [ carved top w pearly gates ] Hondo lazer , Warmoth strat
Fx t.c. 2290 , Lexicon tc verb
Pedals tbone plexi , t.c. chorus , various handmade & usual suspects t.s. , zen , CB wah ..........

Casey_Butt
World Tour
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by Casey_Butt » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:19 pm

That's essentially a full tube amp, but with a low output "power amplifier" section rather than a true power amp. I've never heard one.
_ JVM410H: "Blackface" Clean channel, "Plexi" Crunch channel, "Dual Rec" OD2 channel, 3rd stage bias pot with switchable 100nF bypass cap, switchable 470k/470pF "treble peaker", OD1/2 Orange and Red extra gain pot, signal boost into power amp, PI voltage set to 2203 levels, 5H choke w/ 50uF on screens, -ve feedback pot.
_ Marshall 2203/1959 clone - switchable (with FX loop, resonance control and -ve fb pot) built from a Peavey Windsor 'donor' head
_ Fender Deluxe Reverb clone head
_ ADA MP-1, ART Power Plant, Tech 21 PSA-1
_ 1960A cab w/ Celestion G12-65s and G12-75Ts in X-pattern, Peavey JSX cab with Celestion G12M's (UK 6402 cones)
_ Fender Pro 185 (rebuilt) - open back 2x12" with Jensen C12Ks

Casey_Butt
World Tour
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by Casey_Butt » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:47 pm

Also been working on a Speaker Cab Emulator. The idea behind this is to get the frequency responses right - bottom end, high roll-off, mic proximity effect ("thump"), etc - and give the user complete control over the cab and mic placement characteristics rather than the fixed "snapshot" of Impulse Responses. I've collected over 100 cab responses from all different types of cabs, mics and mic placements that I've used to tune the frequency response and how it responds to moving the mic, different cab types, speaker sizes, etc.

AXiom Speaker Cab Emulator SCE-1 - Copy.jpg
AXiom Speaker Cab Emulator SCE-1 - Copy.jpg (75.73 KiB) Viewed 796 times
_ JVM410H: "Blackface" Clean channel, "Plexi" Crunch channel, "Dual Rec" OD2 channel, 3rd stage bias pot with switchable 100nF bypass cap, switchable 470k/470pF "treble peaker", OD1/2 Orange and Red extra gain pot, signal boost into power amp, PI voltage set to 2203 levels, 5H choke w/ 50uF on screens, -ve feedback pot.
_ Marshall 2203/1959 clone - switchable (with FX loop, resonance control and -ve fb pot) built from a Peavey Windsor 'donor' head
_ Fender Deluxe Reverb clone head
_ ADA MP-1, ART Power Plant, Tech 21 PSA-1
_ 1960A cab w/ Celestion G12-65s and G12-75Ts in X-pattern, Peavey JSX cab with Celestion G12M's (UK 6402 cones)
_ Fender Pro 185 (rebuilt) - open back 2x12" with Jensen C12Ks

okgb
Club Circuit
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: The Great White North-Winnipeg

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by okgb » Wed May 20, 2020 10:40 pm

still months away I believe, Casey can update us
Here is his website https://axiomeffects.com/
Amps JVM 410H [too many mods to mention ] '73 50w lead, 70's vibrochamp , mesa mkIII U.S. Vox pacemaker
Rock , pop rock & Blues style's mainly played
Gtr's Musicanman " Luke " wolfgang [ carved top w pearly gates ] Hondo lazer , Warmoth strat
Fx t.c. 2290 , Lexicon tc verb
Pedals tbone plexi , t.c. chorus , various handmade & usual suspects t.s. , zen , CB wah ..........

Casey_Butt
World Tour
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: Newfoundland

Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by Casey_Butt » Thu May 21, 2020 12:11 am

Then I should update. ;)

Where things are now:

I've just about finished the design, breadboarding and pcb layouts of 11 pedals. I have prototype boards for 5 or 6 of those ready to assemble. 2 have already been done months ago. While I'm building those prototypes I'll order the remaining prototype boards and should be ready for them when they arrive.

I'm finishing the last pcb layout now (the flanger) and when that's done in a day or two I have to clean up the hurricane wreckage that is my workshop and start building some prototypes.

I figure it will take me a few weeks to build and test the prototypes I have now and it will probably take 2-3 weeks for the next batch of prototype boards to arrive. Then a few weeks to assemble and test those. Assuming there are no problems with the boards that will probably take me into July some time. Then it's on to graphics printing and drilling. Hopefully, that will go quickly and I can get things up and running.

Everything takes time, but it's better to be patient and do things right than put the cart before the horse.
_ JVM410H: "Blackface" Clean channel, "Plexi" Crunch channel, "Dual Rec" OD2 channel, 3rd stage bias pot with switchable 100nF bypass cap, switchable 470k/470pF "treble peaker", OD1/2 Orange and Red extra gain pot, signal boost into power amp, PI voltage set to 2203 levels, 5H choke w/ 50uF on screens, -ve feedback pot.
_ Marshall 2203/1959 clone - switchable (with FX loop, resonance control and -ve fb pot) built from a Peavey Windsor 'donor' head
_ Fender Deluxe Reverb clone head
_ ADA MP-1, ART Power Plant, Tech 21 PSA-1
_ 1960A cab w/ Celestion G12-65s and G12-75Ts in X-pattern, Peavey JSX cab with Celestion G12M's (UK 6402 cones)
_ Fender Pro 185 (rebuilt) - open back 2x12" with Jensen C12Ks

Andy
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Re: Designing New Effects Pedals

Post by Andy » Sat May 23, 2020 10:53 am

wow great to see your project Casey ! I will follow your progress avidly [smilie-rock]
|----- if this forum helped you, pls donate to keep it alive -----|
::: JVM410 head,modded:- Hammond 5H choke, 2 tubes pulled, 37.5mv bias :: Caseys Mods :- Plexi cap, -ve feedback, Dual Rectifier, Blackface, 1 wire Randy Rhoads, Plexi, Metaled Out ModPI Boost, OD Channel Gain Reduction Mod
::: AFD100, DSL100W head (no C83), Fender Champ 12
::: 1960AV 2xgreenbacks 2xG12H30, homemade 2x12 cab 2x Celestion Golds (100W)
::: Gibson Les Paul Standard, Dimarzio SD bridge Pup,Standard neck Pup.
::: Tokai Strat with Dimarzio SD, Epi SG-400 Iommi, Hondo Les Paul, Alhambra Acoustic fishman Pup
::: PodXTLive, Vox V848 Clyde McCoy Wah Wah,

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