Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

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erpece
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:35 pm

For while I was tempted to go for the Kemper powerrack. I would mainly use it for live situations where I could run it through my guitar cab, because I don't think using a FR monitor of some sort is my thing.

Here's what eventually changed my mind about the Kemper:
1. The main thing for me is that it's not a good idea to have 2 guitar cabs in your chain. So when a Kemper preset has been modeled with a guitar cab, you need to be able to turn it off if you play the Kemper through a guitar cab. Some presets have the modeled cab as a seperate block you can disable, but many do not. This means you're stuck with having 2 cabs in your chain.

2. The internal Kemper FX are just OK, especially when compared to other units that have multi-fx on board. So in reality you will still need external fx and/or stomp boxes, while I wanted to slim down my pedal board with the Kemper.

So for now, I am still 'stuck' with my HJS, running it into a 1960B and a Torpedo Live (to the mixer) and my trusty G-System. The G-System has been part of my rig since 2007 and I am thinking of replacing it with a Line 6 Helix. The Helix has more FX and additionally it could be set up as a backup for my HJS. We have IEM, so I could do without a cab on stage if needed.

Or maybe try a BluGuitar Amp-1... we'll see... smilie=icon_lol.gif
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by okgb » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:06 pm

I believe the kemper " decides " which sound components are the cab , so you can turn it off, although that maybe one of the lesser ways of using it,
maybe cause its not effective or reveals limitations [ I own a kemper, I don't think it's the end all or be all of anything! but does some things very well ]

I wanted to like the Helix , but last demo I heard was not impressive , I'll save money buy the software first and see !
they all do something better than the other

Kemper , you can profile your own setups , buy pro setups ,
Helix Good live routing and effects , good integration with real amps
Axe Fx good fx & comprehensive signal routing
Amps JVM 410H [too many mods to mention ] '73 50w lead, 70's vibrochamp , mesa mkIII U.S. Vox pacemaker
Rock , pop rock & Blues style's mainly played
Gtr's Musicanman " Luke " wolfgang [ carved top w pearly gates ] Hondo lazer , Warmoth strat
Fx t.c. 2290 , Lexicon tc verb
Pedals tbone plexi , t.c. chorus , various handmade & usual suspects t.s. , zen , CB wah ..........

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by mohi » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:21 am

I am on the waiting list for the Axe FX III here in Europe, and even if I finally buy it, I don´t think would sell my Marshalls, I´m probably too sentimental .... or I just don´t need the money for now.

As a bedroom player, really appreciate the convenience of the new Digital era. Most of my time play with Mercuriall or S-Gear plugins, that sound just amazing, but still hear those Fractal demos that are simply incredible. Nothing can beat the roar of a 4x12 and the singing tone of the tubes but at home, I cannot get the most of the real thing, so emulations sound really better to my ears.
Marshall JVM410C: TAD HPS V1, TAD PS V2, TAD Std V3, EH V4, Mods: Plexi Cap, Choke, K77
Marshall YJM100
Marshall JCM800 1981

erpece
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:01 pm

mohi wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:21 am
I am on the waiting list for the Axe FX III here in Europe, and even if I finally buy it, I don´t think would sell my Marshalls, I´m probably too sentimental .... or I just don´t need the money for now.

As a bedroom player, really appreciate the convenience of the new Digital era. Most of my time play with Mercuriall or S-Gear plugins, that sound just amazing, but still hear those Fractal demos that are simply incredible. Nothing can beat the roar of a 4x12 and the singing tone of the tubes but at home, I cannot get the most of the real thing, so emulations sound really better to my ears.
The Axe FX units are great. Kemper, Axe FX or AX8, Helix, Amplifire etc are all great gear. They all have pros and cons and depending on your personal needs you can't really go wrong with any of them.

I sold my 1982 JCM800 2203 anniversary edition (white tolex) back in 1990 and that was a mistake I will never make again...
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by mohi » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:53 pm

Well, just ordered the Axe Fx III. All demos so far are just stunning, and I want to give it a try, have 30 days to return it, or always can sell it afterwards. I play 99% percent of the time alone, and never have a chance to record because never like my tone, I do when playing with amps, not recording. VST, reactive load ... have tried many things, and could not (my fault, surely) fall in love with any of them.

Time will tell if I keep my amps, at this moment I don´t have an space problem, neither cannot say feel sad by turning them on more than twice a month, but....
Marshall JVM410C: TAD HPS V1, TAD PS V2, TAD Std V3, EH V4, Mods: Plexi Cap, Choke, K77
Marshall YJM100
Marshall JCM800 1981

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:34 am

mohi wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:53 pm
Well, just ordered the Axe Fx III. All demos so far are just stunning, and I want to give it a try, have 30 days to return it, or always can sell it afterwards. I play 99% percent of the time alone, and never have a chance to record because never like my tone, I do when playing with amps, not recording. VST, reactive load ... have tried many things, and could not (my fault, surely) fall in love with any of them.

Time will tell if I keep my amps, at this moment I don´t have an space problem, neither cannot say feel sad by turning them on more than twice a month, but....
Congrats and keep us updated! My new Helix will arrive today... [smilie-rock]
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by mohi » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:26 pm

erpece wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:34 am
Congrats and keep us updated! My new Helix will arrive today... [smilie-rock]
Thanks! I was not too lucky and after six months on wait list I got the notification of shipment for the very same day I leave on vacation .... so have two wait almost three weeks to enjoy it :(

Hope you dig your Helix too!
Marshall JVM410C: TAD HPS V1, TAD PS V2, TAD Std V3, EH V4, Mods: Plexi Cap, Choke, K77
Marshall YJM100
Marshall JCM800 1981

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by mohi » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:02 pm

Got it! I haven't had any other of the previous iterations of the machine but this III is unbeliavable. My fear was that, not being a great tone dialer, it would cost me lots of time to get nice sounds .... far from reality, it is really easy.

Yet no plans to sell my Marshall heads, but being mostly a bedroom player now, hard to turn them on having the Axe Fx.
Marshall JVM410C: TAD HPS V1, TAD PS V2, TAD Std V3, EH V4, Mods: Plexi Cap, Choke, K77
Marshall YJM100
Marshall JCM800 1981

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by ramonetl » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:45 pm

There are so many opinions options and choices that it kind of can suck the joy out of life if you hate that or get you a hard on for weeks if you are techie which I am. I have the best of all worlds for my studio setup. Before I go into my thoughts here is a list of my gear and then my 2c on the amp vs alternative options.

Mesa Boogie Road King 2 head in cool red
JVM 410H
2006 Mesa Oversized 4x12 with CB75s
2016 Mesa 2x12 cab with CB75w
Kemper Profiler Rack
Rivera Rock Crusher
Two Notes Torpedo
Dual Fathead 2 Ribbon Mics
AT4050
SM57\58\Beta85
Mojave Tube mic
Miktek dual channel pre
JoeMeek Twinqcs
Apollo 8p\QuadTwin

So I am not listing this to show off but rather because I will break down what works for me. I keep the 4x12 in my main studio room with the RK2\JVM stacked and each going into one side. I keep the 2x12 in another room with mic's and a snake so I can switch at will between preamps and mics without unplugging everything. I dont bother with a patch bay because I don't really need to and I got lazy...

For a live setup nothing beats the heads. The feel and vibe is amazing and I just like having them. I have blown tubes during shows it happens but its rare and not really a consideration. The weight aspect sucks hence why I bought the 2x12. Originally I had downsized from a Tremoverb half stack to 1x12 50w Rectoverb and that I used for around 13 years. It was great portable and convenient. Then GAS caught up with me again and I bought my first Roadking 2x12 but that turned out to be a back breaker so I sold it and got the head and a cab. Much easier to manage when playing live. I suppose I could bring the 4x12 if I really want to look cool but its not practical. I still like having it at home though because with my boss es-8 I can jump back and forth between the heads at will or even use both at the same time.

Now in recording where I spend most of my time the Kemper is killer and my go to. I started first with the Torpedo live after seeing Pete Thorn demo stuff and its really a cool item but honestly I don't use it often. But its great for going straight from my head to my DAW. You can get lost with the options. I later got the Rivera which I use more as an attenuator after selling my THD. Its a really great piece of gear and I can go direct but I use it more to drive my amps without killing everyone in the house and micing stuff or just practicing. For clean stuff to me nothing beats the fatheads and my Mesa in particular shines there. When it comes to dirt though I am often unhappy with the recorded sound. That is what led me eventually to pull the trigger on the Kemper. This thing is simply a marvel IF you have a good rig. I watched a lot of reviews and demos and again Pete Thorn convinced me. I ended up buying several of the Michael Britt packs and they are top notch. I love love love being able to pick and choose an amp type and sound and demoing in rig manager is super convenient. I can pick cabs in the Torpedo and its super cool but nothing beats having something ready to go that was done superbly in a professional studio. I never bothered to profile my amp because if I want that sound I simply mic it. I think the kemper lives and dies by the quality of the rigs and I like to track and extra output track of the unaltered signal so if I want to reamp it I can. I am still learning to use this but I have to say it has really changed the way I record. I retracked many of my sessions and replaced guitar tracks with new ones using the Kemper with awesome results. I also usually turn off the stomps and effects because I like to add that later in the post work but if I love it I leave it. Like anything YMMV. I cannot speak for the Axe but I would think the logic is similar. And if it works for ya then that is great. I know a lot of folks don't even carry cabs and heads etc anymore. They just jack right into the PA. If it sounds good there is a lot of freedom to that approach and breaking down is a SNAP. Easy on the back too.

Anyways sorry that was long winded. Love what works for you and love it loud! Peter

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by Andy » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:10 pm

peter thanks for taking the time to explain it all i’m sure it will help others who are thinking of taking a similar path... and please keep checking in here sometimes!
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::: JVM410 head,modded:- Hammond 5H choke, 2 tubes pulled, 37.5mv bias :: Caseys Mods :- Plexi cap, -ve feedback, Dual Rectifier, Blackface, 1 wire Randy Rhoads, Plexi, Metaled Out ModPI Boost, OD Channel Gain Reduction Mod
::: AFD100, DSL100W head (no C83), Fender Champ 12
::: 1960AV 2xgreenbacks 2xG12H30, homemade 2x12 cab 2x Celestion Golds (100W)
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by mohi » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:10 am

Hi,

after a couple of months with the AxeFx, I cannot be happier. I sincerely think it is not the typical self justification of an expensive gear, just an honest conclusion. I own three 100W Marshalls and two 4x12s, and barely play guitar thru them anymore. As a bedroom player, that gadget is extremely convenient, and the tones you get are superlative.

Happens that I also own a reactive load (LB2 by Fractal as well) and from time to time I plug the heads to it, just to avoid humidity on the circuits and also for fun, and it is amazing how accurate the digital emulations are vs the original thing.

- The YJM, despite Marshall claims regarding the EPA, does not have a proper Plexi tone at neighbor friendly volumes. So if you want to get the best of it, you must crank the volumes and for that the Reactive Load is great. Still, the Plexi selection in the Axe Fx is amazing and all of them sound ad feel just right.

- The JCM800 ... with mods out again it is an amp that at low volumes is not pleasant, cranked is the way to go (50% of volume pot is enough), and with the extra preamp tube from the SIR39 it improves a bit at low volumes, but yet not super convincing.

- The JVM has always sounded good to me at low volumes, this ones is improved less by using cranking the masters, so I barely use it through the LB2

I guess if I had a band I´d rehearse and probably play again with the actual amps, but for my current purposes I got the best solution by far.
Marshall JVM410C: TAD HPS V1, TAD PS V2, TAD Std V3, EH V4, Mods: Plexi Cap, Choke, K77
Marshall YJM100
Marshall JCM800 1981

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:37 pm

For me it was a not of question of JVM or Axe-FX. I wanted both. With the Axe III there are enough inputs and the routing is flexible enough to do both while still accommodating DAW integration, IEM feeds, and FOH feed. I have the option to use my JVM with the Axe as an effect unit that is both in front of the amp and in the effect loop (4CM). I also have the option of using the Axe-FX as a modeler with my XiTone FRFR powered speaker. This is all managed with presets on the Axe. It is controlled by an RJM Music GT Mastermind 22. With a single button push on the Mastermind, I can move between different presets on the Axe that determine if am using the JVM or the XiTone. Furthermore, I can send PC and CCs to my Marshall to configure the amp.

The first thing about FRFR on the Axe is that cab sims are IRs. With IRs the EQ of the IR is colored by the mic that was used to capture the IR. You are as a result hearing the mic’d sound not the raw amp sound when using cab simulation. This will cause some shifting of the tone away from the tone of a raw amp. Second, FRFR speakers are constructed differently than guitar speakers. This eliminates the “directionalism” that guitarist are used to from guitar cabs. As a result many players coming to Axe FX often report that they miss this so called “amp in the room” feel. Some find this an obstacle that they cannot come to grips with. This can be mitigated by using co-axial speakers wherein the tweeter is integrated with the driver. Such a speaker is used in my Michael Britt.

I would bet my bottom dollar that if you were to setup an Axe so that no cab sims were used and instead used only an amp model and effects that were then output to a power amp with a Marshall 4x12 connected, most of the guys who have not liked modelers would like it just fine. They are that good. Most of what people balk at with modelers are by products of the IRs and FRFR speakers, not the amp models.

The Kemper Profiling Amp is a completely different beast than the Axe or any other modeler. The KPA profiles a real amp and stores that profile thus allowing it to replicate the sound of the profiled amp. Inboard and outboard effects can then be integrated into the signal chain. KPA is a great solution for the guy who has a room full of amps that he wants to get into a single box.

Modelers are a different beast. They try to... well... model an amp. I am familiar with the Axe so I will speak to that. The Axe models many of the internal details of amplifiers. The earlier example of having the output transformer and the pre amp modeled separately was spot on, but it is much deeper than that. They go so far as to even allow many of the amp mods that are out there to be applied to the models (e.g. bright cap). The Axe has outstanding modeling. You can dial in a JVM on an Axe that sounds incredibly close to a real JVM. The big difference is that the cab model is colored by the mic used to record the Cab IR being used.

There were some statements about who can deal with 20 Amps and 20 cabs. I would say that when everything is setup in presets and you control everything with a very powerful and flexible MIDI controller it is quite simple.

Finally a lot of statements about endless tweaking. You can walk this road if you choose. You do not have to do this though. There are so many really high quality presets you can buy. It is fantastic. For me personally I got a “brown sound”, Rhoads Blizzard & Diary presets, Rush, Journey and many more. I just use those presets and I have a damn good replica of the tone for covers I play.

Now there is one thing that a tube amp can do that modelers struggle with: that lovely sustaining feedback. You know it, you hit that note and sustain it and it modulates and overdrives into that beautiful singing controlled feedback. God I love that.
Last edited by CaptNasty on Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by erpece » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:57 am

CaptNasty wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:37 pm
...
Now there is one thing that a tube amp can do that modelers struggle with: that lovely sustaining feedback. You know it, you hit that note and sustain it and it modulates and overdrives into that beautiful singing controlled feedback. God I love that.
I hear you :-)

Have been using my Helix 4cm with the JVM and just the Helix into the PA. We do lots of gigs in small bars with a compact fullrange PA and not having bulky amps on stage saves a lot of space, setup time and power lifting. The Helix sounds great through the PA, but I do miss controlled feedback...
Amp: Marshall JVM410HJS (nov 2012 - present), JVM410H (apr 2007 - dec 2012)
Cab: 1960B with 2 Heritage G12M's and 2 G12T75's, Two Notes Torpedo Live (with home-made IR of my cab)
FX: Line6 Helix, Rocktron Banshee
Guitars: Warmoth Explorer (Bareknuckle Black Dog), Gibson Les Paul Classic (BK Black Dog), Ibanez 1979 Iceman (BK Rebel Yells), EBMM Axis (BK Rebel Yells), Custom PRS (BK Black Dog) and a few more

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by vintageburst84 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:50 pm

Have been using my Helix 4cm with the JVM and just the Helix into the PA. We do lots of gigs in small bars with a compact fullrange PA and not having bulky amps on stage saves a lot of space, setup time and power lifting. The Helix sounds great through the PA, but I do miss controlled feedback...
[/quote]

Can you please tell me if it is possible to control the jvm channel and modes with the helix? I would like to use it with amps and cabs disabled and only for fx

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Re: Sold my JVM & got an Axe-Fx

Post by CaptNasty » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:16 pm

vintageburst84 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:50 pm
Have been using my Helix 4cm with the JVM and just the Helix into the PA. We do lots of gigs in small bars with a compact fullrange PA and not having bulky amps on stage saves a lot of space, setup time and power lifting. The Helix sounds great through the PA, but I do miss controlled feedback...

Can you please tell me if it is possible to control the jvm channel and modes with the helix? I would like to use it with amps and cabs disabled and only for fx
First let’s address the JVM capabilities. If you are using the original JVM, the MIDI implementation only supports PC messages not CCs. On an original JVM you would have to save the different amp configurations as presets, then recall those presets by sending MIDI PC messages.

If you are using the HJS, the MIDI implementation supports both PC and CC messages. This allows you to use both presets (via MIDI PC messages) and to directly change channels/modes as well as other amp features (via MIDI CC toggle messages).

If you are using Helix floor, you should be able to connect the MIDI out on your Helix to the MIDI In on your JVM. You should then be able to configure the Helix to send MIDI Messages (on the correct MIDI channel) in the Command Center.

If you are using Helix rack, how are you controlling it? If you are using a MIDI controller board, the MIDI Out on the controller should be connected to the MIDI in on the Helix. You should be able to connect the MIDI thru on your Helix to the MIDI in on your JVM. You would then configure the MIDI controller to send MIDI messages to control both the Helix Rack and the JVM. In this type of configuration I personally prefer to have each device on separate MIDI channels, provided your MIDI controller supports configuring the MIDI Channel as part of each individual MIDI message.

Alternatively in Helix 2.0 rack you can use Command Center to send MIDI messages from the Helix itself. The difference in approach being do you want to integrate the components in your rig using the presets in the MIDI controller or the presets on the Helix? I personally prefer to integrate the components of my rig via the MIDI controller presets that way the components (other than the MIDI controller) do not have a dependency on each other and all of the MIDI configuration is centralized on one device. This makes changing out components easier.

For information specific to your setup; info about your rig such as JVM Model, Helix model, and MIDI controller model (if applicable) would be needed.
USA Jackson DK1 Custom Shop (2018)
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Ibanez J Custom RG1502S (1998)
Fender American Standard 60th Anniversary Commemorative Stratocaster (2014)
Charvel Satchel Signature Pro Mod DK - Re-finished, OFR, Schaller tuners (2018)
Marshall JVM 410 HJS - Stock (4CM)
Fractal Audio Axe FX III (4CM & FRFR)
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XiTone Michael Britt Active 1x12 (FRFR)
RJM Music GT/Mastermind 22 MIDI Controller
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